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magnetic concentrator

Posted 24.05.2013, 04:34 GMT-4 Low-Frequency Electromagnetics Version 4.3b 6 Replies

Julien Givernaud
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Hello,

I work on a cold crucible for the fusion of silicon with a coil around (around 10 kHz). I have done a 3D model of the crucible to know the efficiency of the crucible (how power is transmetted to the charge).
i want to study now if a magnetic field concentrator can be a good improvment in our set up. But, when I add a concentrator with caracteristics of fluxtrol compagny (high resistivity and high permeability) and don't have the expected result, the efficiency decreases. On simple 2D (or 2D-axy) geometries it's the same, no improvment. On Fluxtrol website 2D simulations are shown with high improvment of efficiency of coils.
Maybe I don't simulate correctly magnetism.
I use mf physic in Frequency domain with a single turn coil domain excited with voltage. Maybe I have to modify complex permeability ?

Any help will be very appreciated

Thank you
6 Replies Last Post 28.05.2013, 05:52 GMT-4
Julien Givernaud
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Posted: 1 decade ago 27.05.2013, 11:57 GMT-4
Nobody is interrested in this subject or have any ideas?
Nobody is interrested in this subject or have any ideas?
Edgar J. Kaiser Certified Consultant
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Posted: 1 decade ago 27.05.2013, 12:14 GMT-4

Julien,

you don't provide much information, so it is difficult to give an advice. Many thing can go wrong in a model.
You could post your model.

Cheers
Edgar

--
Edgar J. Kaiser
www.emphys.com
Julien, you don't provide much information, so it is difficult to give an advice. Many thing can go wrong in a model. You could post your model. Cheers Edgar -- Edgar J. Kaiser http://www.emphys.com
Julien Givernaud
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Posted: 1 decade ago 28.05.2013, 02:38 GMT-4
Thank you Edgar

You are true, you don't have enough informations so I post a 2D axy-model v4.3b
I have design 2 simple identical models (meshes, materials) with mf physic and single turn coil domain on a copper coil the only change is the concentrator around the coil.
Computation time is less than 5 s. When I measure mf.Qh(dissipated power [W]) in charge, I found less power transmited with the concentrator. The efficiency is also reduced n=Pt/((mf.Qh(coil)+mf.Qh(charge)).
I can make it on v4.3a if you can't open it.

Can you tell me if you find some problems in model?

Best regards
Thank you Edgar You are true, you don't have enough informations so I post a 2D axy-model v4.3b I have design 2 simple identical models (meshes, materials) with mf physic and single turn coil domain on a copper coil the only change is the concentrator around the coil. Computation time is less than 5 s. When I measure mf.Qh(dissipated power [W]) in charge, I found less power transmited with the concentrator. The efficiency is also reduced n=Pt/((mf.Qh(coil)+mf.Qh(charge)). I can make it on v4.3a if you can't open it. Can you tell me if you find some problems in model? Best regards
Edgar J. Kaiser Certified Consultant
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Posted: 1 decade ago 28.05.2013, 04:59 GMT-4

Julien

I had a look at the model and didn't find issues. Maybe except some sharp edges that might compromise accuracy.

However, the deviation in heating power between the two models is small and I wouldn't expect an increase in efficiency from the concentrator. It might even force some more flux into the air gap between the charge and the coil and thus decrease the efficiency.

Cheers
Edgar

--
Edgar J. Kaiser
www.emphys.com
Julien I had a look at the model and didn't find issues. Maybe except some sharp edges that might compromise accuracy. However, the deviation in heating power between the two models is small and I wouldn't expect an increase in efficiency from the concentrator. It might even force some more flux into the air gap between the charge and the coil and thus decrease the efficiency. Cheers Edgar -- Edgar J. Kaiser http://www.emphys.com
Julien Givernaud
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Posted: 1 decade ago 28.05.2013, 05:14 GMT-4
Thank you Edgar to spend time on my problem

The problem is that some simulations quite identical to mine, made in 2D by Fluxtrol compagny, show an huge increase of efficiency in using concentrators.

fluxtrol.com/technical-library/induction-heating-presentations/

I don't know how to obtain results like their.

Best regards
Thank you Edgar to spend time on my problem The problem is that some simulations quite identical to mine, made in 2D by Fluxtrol compagny, show an huge increase of efficiency in using concentrators. http://fluxtrol.com/technical-library/induction-heating-presentations/ I don't know how to obtain results like their. Best regards
Edgar J. Kaiser Certified Consultant
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Posted: 1 decade ago 28.05.2013, 05:52 GMT-4

Julien,

I can only give the advice to carefully study the reference models for deviations to your application and maybe even contact the company and confront them with your results.
I am sorry I can't spend the time to dig deeper into it in the forum context.

Cheers
Edgar

--
Edgar J. Kaiser
www.emphys.com
Julien, I can only give the advice to carefully study the reference models for deviations to your application and maybe even contact the company and confront them with your results. I am sorry I can't spend the time to dig deeper into it in the forum context. Cheers Edgar -- Edgar J. Kaiser http://www.emphys.com

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